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Report 1326
Report #1326 Skillset: Celestialism Skill: New Org: Celestines Status: Completed Mar 2015 Furies' Decision: We're looking into the pledges tables for both celestines and nihilists (see envoys post 746) Problem: With the conversion of vapors into recklessness, the Celestines are left with three afflictions out of five originally to choose from in the Shakiniel's pledged list of afflictions. The loss of vapors is in need of replacement with the alternative of blackout, which has a similar function to vapors but without the periodic blackout and knockdown if vapors was left uncured. This alternative instead is cured by time, which is a short duration, or by allheale as the alternative cure. Vapors basically being removed, placed a crux in Celestine styles of combat that had its place in different ways in killing with any method provided to Celestian with what they are given. This report seeks to replace it, and additionally will propose filling the missing fifth affliction in the Shakiniel pledge 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Add a fourth Shakiniel affliction called blackout or a name/afflict that gives blackout 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Solution 1, include confusion to fill the missing fifth affliction 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Solution 1, include epilepsy to fill the missing fifth affliction Player Comments: ---on 2/25 @ 06:13 writes: Fine with this provided that the blackout given is of a similarly short duration only. ---on 2/25 @ 06:31 writes: Support. I could also see giving the proposed blackout a knockdown as well, as there is no longer a 'cure' needed for the new suggestion, and there is no longer a threat of recurrent blackouts if left 'uncured'. ---on 2/25 @ 21:02 writes: I can agree with that, Shuyin ---on 2/28 @ 03:06 writes: I would rather blackout be added into Celestialism via a new (active) skill. Perhaps a delayed skill of some sort, so that Celestines can continue to use it to hide stuff like soulless throws if they want, instead of putting it into the skillset as a passive ability. Passive blackout is always frustrating to deal with, and at the same time, passive blackout also does not take a curative balance to cure the same way vapours did. Replacing vapours with blackout is a general nerf to Celestialism while at the same time retaining the frustrating aspect of having to deal with blackout constantly, passively. Lose-lose for everyone involved. Also of note is that kneel is already a knockdown, right? Adding knockdown to blackout will just make it replace kneel entirely. Instead of blackout, how about something like confusion (ab file says Shakinel confuses target, but there's no confusion in the powers list), or epilepsy, both of which take up a curative balance to cure, and have a (strong) persistent effect if left uncured. Useful for Celestines, no frustrating passive blackout to deal with for everyone else. Win-win! ---on 2/28 @ 18:02 writes: Well, I could as well have Shakiniel's fourth afflict that is currently missing to have confusion as well to be considered to fill in what we are missing due to the changeover of afflictions into other afflictions, as another option if that's feasible. ---on 2/28 @ 18:03 writes: To which also, obfuscation to me means masking or hiding, so blackout would fit this perfectly. ---on 3/1 @ 19:37 writes: Supported to have blackout. ---on 3/1 @ 21:22 writes: Supported. ---on 3/2 @ 10:45 writes: I will also raise the matter of the removal from Vapors from Hexes affecting Hexens everywhere. I support this report if a similar affliction, Blacked Out, be created in Hexes as well. ---on 3/2 @ 17:03 writes: I don't agree with the notion that Hexes needs blackout back. ---on 3/3 @ 02:27 writes: Uhhh, why is that? Vapors got removed. Hexes lost vapors. Celestines lost vapors. Was the point of the overhaul to remove access to blackout for hexes? No. Vapors was removed because of the recurring blackout it gave if left uncured. If the celestines are asking for blackout back(and mind you, it's a one time blackout not the recurring incarnation from vapors) then I don't see any reason why hexens(illuminati, moondancersshadowdancers,nihilists) shouldn't get it as well. ---on 3/3 @ 02:50 writes: Reading back, I realize that my previous comment seems too snarky. That was not the intention. I also would like to reiterate that I am asking for hexen access to blackout again. The incarnation for the shakiniel incarnation is a passive blackout as opposed to active blackout to be given by hexen. If the duration is the issue, it can be addressed by admin and adjusted accordingly. ---on 3/3 @ 02:54 writes: I don't oppose hexens having access to blackout, as long as the restrictions are similar or the same. ---on 3/3 @ 04:57 writes: I don't think Hexes needs blackout back. They have plenty of afflicting power without needing to hide it. Celestines, on the other hand, relied heavily on their blackout. By your argument, I should say that Loralaria VioletVibrato should have blackout added to its list of afflictions back again. ---on 3/3 @ 11:44 writes: If VioletVibrato previously afflicted with vapors and got hit the overhaul, by all means feel free to ask for blackout, too. Vapors/blackout provided a brief time frame where hexen can mask afflictions without having to burn power(doublewhammy) with vapors gone we have to burn power if we want to hide affs. In fact, it won't even be the same as before where the blackout was recurring. We have to actively keep afflicting with it and this report is even asking to shorten the duration from the old incarnation. So yes, I am asking for that choice back, even if it's a downgraded version. ---on 3/4 @ 00:33 writes: The reason I'm not asking for blackout for VV is because it got recklessness and paranoia in return during the Overhaul. It's already a very strong passive song effect that doesn't need blackout tacked back onto it. I'm applying that same mindset to Hexes. ---on 3/4 @ 18:14 writes: Which got nothing in return for the removal of vapors. VV got something in return. Spot the difference. ---on 3/4 @ 18:19 writes: Oh, and in case anyone needs a little reminder: barring hexensoles, nothing in hexes passively afflicts people. VV, as mentioned, is a recurring song effect that had SOMETHING replace its loss of vapors. Aren't we comparing apples and oranges here? ---on 3/5 @ 03:36 writes: I have 0 problem with this. Blackout isn't going to be as useful anymore (as all hidden affs will lose some of their usefulness when going from 20+ cures down to 4) and so the issue of it being common isn't that big of a deal anymore. @Siam: Envoy it, you have a slot open, let's not distract away from a Celestine report over a skill they don't even get. ---on 3/5 @ 03:44 writes: Support for reintroducing Blackout to Raziela's pledge list, provided it has the shorter duration Vapors had. As well, it seems buggy to me that Shakiniel's pledge list dropped down to the current three of Anorexia, Clumsiness, and Paranoia only. Prior to the changes, Shakiniel had Anorexia, Dementia, Claustrophobia, Hypochondria, and Paranoia -- the fourth option should have been Hallucinations after replacing Claustrophobia. Did something change between my records, or was this an oversight? ---on 3/10 @ 00:07 writes: I'd postulate that Hallucinations isn't Supernal-y enough if it was intentionally left off. ---on 3/11 @ 00:12 writes: I support the reinstatement of blackout as an angel aff. Further, I would add a Solution 2/3 to read as: Solution 1, in addition to filling the missing fifth Shakiniel affliction with confusion/epilepsy. Or suggest some aff to fill the 5th slot; no reason to Envoy this again. ---on 3/11 @ 02:19 writes: Kaimanahi had brought a very good point, as its rather silly to envoy this again when it can be done like what is suggested. As far as hallucinations is concerned, it is very in-line with the thematics of Celestine style of hindrances which means they are meant to stop, interrupt or immobilize, hallucinations procs a stun as it is intended to, to that end it is obsolete that we have access to hallucinations twice which is pointless. It currently resides in Japhiel's and Raziela's list of afflictions, to which I'll be looking into the deletion of two occurences of hallucinations for something more in line with the style of the pledge's types they're suppose to hinder with. ---on 3/11 @ 18:15 writes: In that case, I can support solution 2 ---on 3/12 @ 11:18 writes: I agree with Shuyin's comment that as long as the blackout is of short duration, this replacement is appropriate. In retrospect, all instances of vapors *should* have been replaced with a short blackout in the first place. ---on 3/13 @ 21:54 writes: I support changing vapors across the board with a short blackout if the admin think it's balanced enough to do so. ---on 3/30 @ 02:36 writes: I agree with Rivius. All instances of vapors should have been replaced with the short blackout (same duration as vapors). Difference is that it won't be recurring if not cured (because it is just blackout). This is fine. It is a nerf, but effectively a non-existant one since everyone was curing vapors pretty quickly anyways.